ImpDev Meetups/2009-10-27

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ImpDev Meetup for October 27, 2009.

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[11:59] Jacek Antonelli: Ahoy
[11:59] Geneko Nemeth: Good to see ya Jacek!
[11:59] Armin Weatherwax: Ahoy
[12:01] Jacek Antonelli: Not sure if McCabe is awake. -_-
[12:02] Armin Weatherwax: hm but its 1hr earlier now
[12:02] Geneko Nemeth: Not where I live.
[12:02] Geneko Nemeth: And not in California either.
[12:03] Armin Weatherwax: yeah, fortunally I remembered that
[12:03] Armin Weatherwax: -typo
[12:03] Geneko Nemeth: "Daylight savings time", yeah right... now midnight is 1am and noon is 13:00. How weird is that?
[12:04] Armin Weatherwax: lol
[12:04] Jacek Antonelli: hehe
[12:05] Jacek Antonelli: The Lindens are having the first brownbag meeting for the third party viewer policy this week
[12:05] Geneko Nemeth: No comment.
[12:05] Jacek Antonelli: But apparently it has nearly filled up already. The next one is on November 12.
[12:06] Jacek Antonelli: Sadly, both of them are at the same time as UXIG :(
[12:06] Armin Weatherwax: hm prokofy is invited there, too?
[12:06] Geneko Nemeth: That's okay, I think we don't really have much topic for UXIG.
[12:06] Jacek Antonelli: Heh, probably. I don't expect much to be accomplished to whichever one he attends
[12:07] Geneko Nemeth: I'm still surprised he's a male.
[12:07] Geneko Nemeth: With his name and his high amount of whining.
[12:07] Jacek Antonelli rolls her eyes
[12:07] Jacek Antonelli: Anyway.
[12:08] Jacek Antonelli: I will probably go to the one on November 12. They are going to be recording them, so if I want to enjoy the chaos of the first one I can watch it on youtube, heh.
[12:09] Armin Weatherwax: well, he's dominating the blog - a bit at least
[12:09] Armin Weatherwax: ah -the meetings are on youtube - thats great :)
[12:10] Jacek Antonelli: Yep, Torley is going to be recording them. Whee!
[12:11] Jacek Antonelli: Hopefully they will have a transcript.
[12:11] Armin Weatherwax: are they going to have voice chat then?
[12:12] Jacek Antonelli: I don't know. I sure hope not.
[12:12] Armin Weatherwax: lol
[12:13] Jacek Antonelli: Ahoy McCabe
[12:13] McCabe Maxsted waves
[12:13] Armin Weatherwax: Ahoy
[12:13] McCabe Maxsted: mornin'
[12:14] Jacek Antonelli: We were just talking about the brownbag meetings. Oh, that reminds me I need to start practicing
[12:14] Jacek Antonelli dons her brown paper bag
[12:14] McCabe Maxsted: hehehe
[12:14] Jacek Antonelli: Better.
[12:14] Jacek Antonelli: Anyway. Apparently the one for this week is practically filled up with RSVPs
[12:15] Armin Weatherwax: you cheat i clearly see it's made from pixels and not paper
[12:15] Jacek Antonelli: And I'm sure it's gonna be totally chaotic. So I was thinking of going to the November 12 one instead.
[12:15] Jacek Antonelli: hehehe Armin
[12:15] McCabe Maxsted: sounds like a good idea
[12:15] Armin Weatherwax: scnr
[12:17] Jacek Antonelli: Apparently Torley is going to be videoing them. Which I hope doesn't mean it's going to be in voice. :(
[12:17] McCabe Maxsted: heh, yeah, I was wondering about that
[12:18] McCabe Maxsted: maybe they're all on viewer 2.0 which is oh so voicerific?
[12:18] Jacek Antonelli: I mean, if there's one thing they could do to ensure the meetings are completely chaotic and unproductive, it would be to use voice.
[12:18] Geneko Nemeth: Way too voicerific. Not to mention unhackable...
[12:19] McCabe Maxsted: it's like encryption but with sound!
[12:19] Armin Weatherwax: great
[12:19] Jacek Antonelli: Anyway.
[12:20] Armin Weatherwax: any clear message so far?
[12:20] McCabe Maxsted: from us or them?
[12:20] Armin Weatherwax: from them
[12:20] Jacek Antonelli: They seem to be convinced that this is a good thing, and that it would accomplish anything.
[12:21] McCabe Maxsted: ah, not as far as I know
[12:21] McCabe Maxsted: this is customer service handling it...
[12:21] Jacek Antonelli: Whereas I am of the opinion that it could be stifling, or effective, but not both.
[12:22] Jacek Antonelli: Erm, could be NOT stifling, or effective.
[12:22] Armin Weatherwax: so they are planning to turn the grid into a big mixture od disneyland and amazon?
[12:22] Jacek Antonelli: No, I think they really believe that it's just going to be a list of recommended alternative viewers, and they aren't going to restrict things.
[12:22] Geneko Nemeth: Well, that might have been their plan all along, but it has nothing to do with the third-party viewer stuff.
[12:23] Jacek Antonelli: Except to be tough against viewers that violate the TOS, which they could be already without this policy
[12:23] Armin Weatherwax: ok, i read too much prokofy then
[12:23] Jacek Antonelli: heh, yes. Reading any Prokofy is too much
[12:23] Geneko Nemeth: I disagree.
[12:24] Geneko Nemeth: Prokofy makes some rather insightful statements too.
[12:24] Geneko Nemeth: Lulz, the topic on got locked.
[12:24] Armin Weatherwax: yeah, but very time consuming in all the open-source is bad text walls
[12:25] Armin Weatherwax: to find*
[12:25] McCabe Maxsted liked prok's suggestion of how since states register sex offendors, opensource devs should be registered too
[12:25] Geneko Nemeth: Yes, in general he's counterproductive and offensive...
[12:26] Geneko Nemeth: ... huh, they weren't any insightful at all. What was I thinking? I must have read way too much Profokey.
[12:27] Jacek Antonelli: Heh
[12:27] Jacek Antonelli: Anyway, enough about that.
[12:27] Armin Weatherwax: yeah
[12:27] Jacek Antonelli: We will see what happens this week, and I'll be going to the Nov 12 one. How about you, McCabe?
[12:27] McCabe Maxsted: I asked about this coming thursday
[12:28] Geneko Nemeth: (Mostly and are Prokofy's, umm, suggestions on what viewer forkers should not do.)
[12:29] McCabe Maxsted: there shoud hopefully be a pre-meeting moot on hippotropolis today at 3
[12:30] Armin Weatherwax: I really hope Morgaine finds time to be at that meetings
[12:31] McCabe Maxsted is asking her
[12:34] McCabe Maxsted: [12:30] McCabe Maxsted: are you going to be at the meetings?

[12:32] Morgaine Dinova: Which ones? If you mean brownbag, I've not had an invitation email --- probably owing to having told Cyn that she should stop inventing policies outside of her competence and talk to her tecies instead :-)

[12:34] Jacek Antonelli chuckles
[12:35] Armin Weatherwax: yeah, thats what i mean why she should be there
[12:36] Jacek Antonelli: Anyway, enough about the meetings, I think.
[12:37] McCabe Maxsted: yarr
[12:37] Armin Weatherwax: arrr
[12:37] Jacek Antonelli: By the way, I checked recently after reading a comment from Robin Cornelius, and it seems the licensing of the vivox binaries has changed since I last checked, and it may not be possible to distribute them ourselves.
[12:37] Geneko Nemeth: RIAA! RIAA!
[12:37] Jacek Antonelli: Erm. It may *now* be possible.
[12:38] McCabe Maxsted: woo
[12:38] Geneko Nemeth: Distibute != modify...
[12:38] Armin Weatherwax: as long as we don't have to sell our soul for that
[12:39] Jacek Antonelli: I don't think we do, hehe
[12:39] Armin Weatherwax: think that was part of the old policy
[12:39] Jacek Antonelli: haha
[12:39] Jacek Antonelli: I will be sure to check for a "We own your soul now" clause
[12:40] Armin Weatherwax: anyway ...
[12:40] Jacek Antonelli: Yeah.
[12:41] McCabe Maxsted would be very happy to distribute voice. I hate having to add it in later
[12:41] Jacek Antonelli: I have finally gotten around to working on Imprudence some more. I was preoccupied for the past couple weeks with something else, sorry.
[12:41] Geneko Nemeth: Examfest?
[12:41] Jacek Antonelli: I've moved Logout to the advanced menu and set a limit of 1,000,000 on the chat channel spinner as a work around for that bug
[12:42] Armin Weatherwax: hm. i will be preoccupied for the next some weeks with RL
[12:42] Jacek Antonelli: And I'm now in the process of converting the minimap radar to its own panel class, which should make it easier to collapse, and even someday detach from the minimap
[12:43] Armin Weatherwax: cool
[12:43] Geneko Nemeth: We already have Nearby Speakers, though...
[12:43] McCabe Maxsted: yay!
[12:45] Jacek Antonelli: I briefly looked at making the shortcut for View > Advanced Menu change to Ctrl-Alt-Shift-D when running on Linux, but it seemed like it would require some substantial modifications to the keyboard shortcuts system, and not much benefit in return
[12:46] Armin Weatherwax: and have it hardcoded like it was and no shortcut given in the menu?
[12:47] Jacek Antonelli: That might be the best way for now, yes
[12:47] Jacek Antonelli: Any objection to doing it that way?
[12:47] McCabe Maxsted: nope
[12:47] Armin Weatherwax: no
[12:48] Jacek Antonelli: Okay.
[12:48] Jacek Antonelli: Anything else to talk about today?
[12:48] Armin Weatherwax: yeah. i love the minimap radar
[12:48] Jacek Antonelli: hehehe
[12:48] Jacek Antonelli: It's pretty nice
[12:49] McCabe Maxsted: anything else it's missing before 1.2 is done? besides the toggle?
[12:49] McCabe Maxsted: and voice stuff
[12:49] Armin Weatherwax: don't think so
[12:50] Jacek Antonelli: voice stuff?
[12:50] McCabe Maxsted: geneko pointed out the overlap between the list and the active speakers list
[12:51] Jacek Antonelli: Is that a problem?
[12:51] Geneko Nemeth: It's something that can be improved. Not necessarily in 1.2, but someday.
[12:51] McCabe Maxsted: yeah. It's redundant
[12:52] Armin Weatherwax: ah.
[12:52] Armin Weatherwax: good idea :)
[12:53] Jacek Antonelli: Alright. But not for 1.2.
[12:53] McCabe Maxsted thinks. There are a few other small bugs for 1.2. LMs not previewing, some labels that are overlapping
[12:53] Armin Weatherwax: :)
[12:54] Jacek Antonelli: Okay, go ahead fixing any small bugs you find while I work on this radar stuff
[12:54] Geneko Nemeth: You confirmed LMs from groups not previewing?
[12:54] McCabe Maxsted: not yet
[12:54] McCabe Maxsted just logged in, hehe
[12:55] McCabe Maxsted: which reminds me, jacek can you send out a gorup notice with an lm in it?
[12:56] Geneko Nemeth: (It also doesn't work when you try to open one from notice history)
[12:56] Armin Weatherwax: ah copy/paste : lusing my systems gtk glib atk was not successful
[12:56] Jacek Antonelli: Hrm
[12:57] Armin Weatherwax: any other lib changed?
[12:57] Armin Weatherwax: (since the code didnt)
[12:58] Jacek Antonelli: Ah, item icons in the group notices panel are still wrong. Bleh.
[12:59] McCabe Maxsted: ah, I see
[13:00] Geneko Nemeth: What other libs?
[13:01] Armin Weatherwax: copy paste works the commit before the libs are added and stops after
[13:01] Jacek Antonelli: Lots of libs changed. :\
[13:01] Armin Weatherwax: f*
[13:02] Jacek Antonelli: Glib, gtk, atk, pango, cairo, ...
[13:03] Armin Weatherwax: ok, the next 2 i try is pango and cairo
[13:03] Geneko Nemeth doubts that is gonna work...
[13:04] Armin Weatherwax: me too
[13:04] Jacek Antonelli: Perhaps you could use "ldd" to check if any of the libraries have unresolved dependencies on your system?
[13:04] Jacek Antonelli: Maybe there is something more I should include
[13:04] Armin Weatherwax: both are about fonts arent they
[13:04] Geneko Nemeth: Well, not exactly.
[13:04] Geneko Nemeth: Cairo is a graphics rendering library.
[13:05] Geneko Nemeth: Pango... is a Unicode layout engine.
[13:05] Armin Weatherwax: ok, close enough
[13:05] Armin Weatherwax: and too frar from c/p
[13:05] Geneko Nemeth: But that has nothing to do with copying / pasting...
[13:06] Geneko Nemeth: is in the gtk-etc package from
[13:06] Jacek Antonelli: If there are unresolved dependencies (including pango or cairo) that could cause GTK not to load, if it's being loaded dynamically
[13:06] Geneko Nemeth: ... no wait, you tried that one...
[13:08] Armin Weatherwax: well, we'll find it
[13:08] Jacek Antonelli: Okay, please keep trying with that. And try the ldd stuff
[13:08] Jacek Antonelli: Anything else today before we go?
[13:09] McCabe Maxsted: nope
[13:10] Armin Weatherwax: no
[13:10] Geneko Nemeth should test how prebuilt Imprudence fair with Ubuntu 9.10 some day.
[13:10] Jacek Antonelli: Alright, thanks for coming everyone, take care. See you on Thursday, except McCabe who will be at the brown bag ?
[13:11] Armin Weatherwax: ok cu :)
[13:11] Jacek Antonelli: Bai!