ImpDev Meetups/2011-08-04

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ImpDev Meetup for August 04, 2011.

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Agenda Items

  • None



[12:58] Armin WeatherHax: hi Jacek :)
[12:58] Thoria Millgrove: hi Jacek!
[12:58] Jacek Antonelli: Hello :)
[12:59] Thoria Millgrove: I think if we had dancing meetings at work in RL, they would be considerably shorter
[12:59] Jacek Antonelli: hehehe
[12:59] Armin WeatherHax: lol
[12:59] Arrehn Oberlander: Aha! THanks for the snapshot
[12:59] Arrehn Oberlander: I can see dance balls ;)
[13:00] Stryker Jenkins: LOL... party time?
[13:00] Armin WeatherHax: they are all named dance circle 12
[13:00] Thoria Millgrove: that's better than all being named Primitive
[13:00] Armin WeatherHax: or object
[13:01] Arrehn Oberlander: How is that?
[13:01] Armin WeatherHax: Imp3B is soon, isn't it?
[13:02] Armin WeatherHax: yeah worked
[13:02] Stryker Jenkins: looking good guys...
[13:02] Stryker Jenkins: lol
[13:02] Jacek Antonelli: Yep, 3rd birthday is September 1
[13:03] Stryker Jenkins: I am wondering... Jacek... why is your AV showing up as a purple blob on the minimap?
[13:03] Armin WeatherHax: must be a bug
[13:03] Thoria Millgrove: 'cause she's special
[13:03] Arrehn Oberlander: Love the sky Armin.
[13:03] Stryker Jenkins: yeah... Thoria... but "how special" is she... lol
[13:04] Thoria Millgrove:
[13:04] Thoria Millgrove: hi JCC!
[13:04] Justin Clark-Casey: huh
[13:04] Armin WeatherHax: hi Justin :)
[13:04] Justin Clark-Casey: is this some kind of party?
[13:04] Justin Clark-Casey: hi armin
[13:05] Jacek Antonelli: Apparently it's a dancing meeting
[13:05] Stryker Jenkins: don't look at me... they where dancing when I got here
[13:05] Justin Clark-Casey grins
[13:05] Armin WeatherHax: dito, anybody was dancing when I arrived
[13:05] Justin Clark-Casey: looks like a disease to me
[13:05] Thoria Millgrove: :-P
[13:05] Armin WeatherHax: ;)
[13:07] Boroondas Gupte: Hi all
[13:08] Armin WeatherHax: hi Boroondas :)
[13:08] Boroondas Gupte: Is there a party here?
[13:08] Jacek Antonelli: Hiya Boroondas :)
[13:08] Jacek Antonelli: It's the dancing plague. We caught it from Thoria
[13:09] Stryker Jenkins: hop on to one of the dance balls...
[13:09] Stryker Jenkins: lol
[13:09] Thoria Millgrove: I caught it while on holiday :-P
[13:10] Stryker Jenkins: Holiday... what is that?
[13:10] Armin WeatherHax: hm, maybe we should use some RLVa tricks on Justin ;)
[13:10] Justin Clark-Casey: lol
[13:10] Thoria Millgrove: haha
[13:10] Justin Clark-Casey: you see, I'm the typical outsider
[13:10] Stryker Jenkins: a wall flower?
[13:10] Justin Clark-Casey: that too
[13:10] Boroondas Gupte: Do you have sculpty or mesh shoes, Thoria? (They look garbled to me on Kokua.)
[13:10] Thoria Millgrove: you can dance next to me, JCC
[13:10] Jacek Antonelli: We should have programmed in the ability for any Imprudence dev to make any Imprudence user dance
[13:11] Thoria Millgrove: they're sculpty
[13:11] Stryker Jenkins: well gives the dancers something prety to look at...
[13:11] Thoria Millgrove: lol Jacek
[13:11] Justin Clark-Casey: I'll sit down and dance
[13:11] Thoria Millgrove: a lap dance?
[13:11] Boroondas Gupte: reverse lap dance
[13:11] Justin Clark-Casey: in a manner of speaking :)
[13:11] Justin Clark-Casey: but not so sexy
[13:12] Armin WeatherHax: but interesting - the dance ball first made me sit, too
[13:12] Stryker Jenkins: hmmm all animations start from sit don't they?
[13:12] Jacek Antonelli: Yeah, I had to try twice
[13:13] Stryker Jenkins: I was at Hippo Hollow today... nice pavilion there...
[13:13] Stryker Jenkins: bit "bare" ...
[13:13] Thoria Millgrove: is that near Austin?
[13:13] Thoria Millgrove: hehe
[13:14] Stryker Jenkins: Hippo Hollow (SL)
[13:14] Thoria Millgrove: yeah, I figured, given the Hippo meme
[13:15] Stryker Jenkins: I don't get the Hippo reference myself... Seen that all over SL... Is that the same as ACME in the Cartoon world?
[13:15] Jacek Antonelli: Oz Linden gave us a little parcel to use
[13:15] Thoria Millgrove: for mesh?
[13:15] Thoria Millgrove: I think so, Stryker; I don't know its origen
[13:15] Stryker Jenkins: TPV info pavilion
[13:15] Armin WeatherHax: well, the other joice would have been to build a gigantic hand (at least 1m higher than other gigantic insignia ... like the lighthouse
[13:16] Jacek Antonelli: For pretty much whatever we need to use it for, I think.
[13:16] Stryker Jenkins: Hand? you mean the firestorm fenix?
[13:16] Arrehn Oberlander: Did someone actually put that there?
[13:17] Armin WeatherHax: yeah, it is there and is ... gigantic ... lol
[13:17] Stryker Jenkins: well the Kokua pavilion could use some planting around it... "dressing it up a bit", so to say
[13:17] Arrehn Oberlander: *sigh*
[13:17] Armin WeatherHax: hi thickbrick
[13:17] Thickbrick Sleaford: hi
[13:18] Justin Clark-Casey: hi thickbrick
[13:18] Thickbrick Sleaford: did the agenda say "DANCE!"?
[13:18] Stryker Jenkins: eh... hate to be a drag... is there anything on the Agenda?
[13:19] Jacek Antonelli: Nothing on the formal agenda. I have a little update about Hg (Mercurial, not hypergrid)
[13:20] Stryker Jenkins: well I notice something silly about imprudence... but nothing that I would even want to file a bug report about...
[13:20] Jacek Antonelli: Last night I did some tinkering with hg, and created a new branch that has most of our old Kokua commits, rebased on top of SL 2.4.0.
[13:21] Boroondas Gupte: cool
[13:21] Armin WeatherHax: I tinkered a bit with it earlier :)
[13:21] Jacek Antonelli: So, it doesn't have the all the messy branching and merging we did, but it has all (I think) the real changes we made
[13:22] Jacek Antonelli: By the way, thanks for the kokua-dev repository, Armin. That made it a lot easier for me
[13:22] Armin WeatherHax: think the merge-2.7 will add some ease, too
[13:23] Jacek Antonelli: Great. :) That is next on my list, merging the new branch into 2.7
[13:23] Justin Clark-Casey: I hear linden lab have stepped up the number of viewer commits lately
[13:23] Justin Clark-Casey: jacek: I thought you were retiring - or is this going out with a blaze of glory? :)
[13:23] Armin WeatherHax: yeah, basically they got insane
[13:24] Stryker Jenkins: as far as merging and adding new stuff goes... can we expect some public alpha update to play with in the near future?
[13:24] Thickbrick Sleaford: They did a merge of mesh->viewer-dev today.... Which isn't building.
[13:25] Boroondas Gupte: ew ... again? :-(
[13:25] Jacek Antonelli: JCC: I'm just doing what I can to keep things moving along :)
[13:25] Boroondas Gupte: So much for the "no commit may break the build" mantra.
[13:25] Armin WeatherHax: i was trying to bisect in the mesh viewer - it lacks of a large number of files over long periods of time
[13:26] Thickbrick Sleaford: at least it isn't building for me.. something about the convex devomposition stub.
[13:26] Justin Clark-Casey: I thought Linden Lab were continually committing to a public repo now?
[13:26] Armin WeatherHax: ah thickbrick, i ran into that, too - you comment that out
[13:27] Armin WeatherHax: can*
[13:27] Boroondas Gupte: ah, that might be semi-expected, Thickbrick ... the convex decomp lib is not public due to licencing limitations, and the stub we get instead might not always be up to date
[13:27] Justin Clark-Casey: nice
[13:28] Armin WeatherHax: wolfpub has a opensource replacement, I didn't try yet, but it looks good from first flipping through it
[13:28] Arrehn Oberlander: Has any long term solution for that surfaced?
[13:28] Arrehn Oberlander: I thought Kirsten might have found a working OSS replacement.
[13:28] Boroondas Gupte: Jusden seems to be working on something in that regard, too.
[13:29] Thickbrick Sleaford: was Wolfpup working on fixing the stub for it to build, or making a full replacement?
[13:29] Boroondas Gupte:
[13:29] Arrehn Oberlander: Wolfpup does, oh fantastic.
[13:29] Boroondas Gupte: Thickbrick, I think he was working on both.
[13:29] Jacek Antonelli: Hi Prospero :)
[13:29] Prospero Frobozz: hEY
[13:29] Stryker Jenkins: Hello Prospero
[13:29] Prospero Frobozz: OOps, caps lock
[13:30] Justin Clark-Casey: hi propspero
[13:30] Thoria Millgrove: hi Prospero
[13:30] Prospero Frobozz: This is the first weekly Jacek going away party? :)
[13:30] Jacek Antonelli: hehe
[13:30] Stryker Jenkins: weekly ... LOL
[13:30] Armin WeatherHax: hi Prospero
[13:31] Armin WeatherHax: ah here:
[13:31] Prospero Frobozz: Jacek -- I don't know if you saw my blog comment (I'm also "Rob Knop"), but I've been very happy that you did that Blender animation template.... extremely useful.
[13:31] Jacek Antonelli: I'm glad you found it useful :)
[13:32] Stryker Jenkins: hmmm Blender... yet another program to learn... so I can continue playing SL... grumpff
[13:32] Jacek Antonelli: Ok, so, once the 2.7 merge is done, I think we should be in a position to start actually making progress on Kokua again.
[13:32] Prospero Frobozz: Heh... no, you don't need to learn Blender. But, Blender *is* awesome...
[13:32] Prospero Frobozz: Despite the advent of mesh, prims are going to remain useful
[13:32] Stryker Jenkins: well I will start with SketchUp
[13:33] Prospero Frobozz: Yeah, I really like Blender, but it's learning curve is even more monstrous than EVE Online
[13:33] Stryker Jenkins: thank god for that... Prospero
[13:33] Stryker Jenkins: but I can't wait for the larger prims by standard in SL
[13:33] Armin WeatherHax: if mesh keeps changing like it was in the last time you even need prims to see anything but bubbles ;)
[13:33] Prospero Frobozz: Stryker : yeah! Damn, I remember Andrew Linden talking about wanting to do taht 3 years ago, when I was half-way through being a Linden.
[13:33] Stryker Jenkins: Jacek ... thats good to hear about Kokua... any timeframe to go with that?
[13:34] Arrehn Oberlander: Has anyone here thought about a strategy for SL's web profiles, going forward? Planning to use them, or use some middletier parsing, or something else?
[13:34] Prospero Frobozz: I guess the real question is how long the open source SL client base is going to support "old style" profiles.
[13:34] Prospero Frobozz: When it doesn't any more, it makes it harder for TPV developers to support old style profiles....
[13:35] Justin Clark-Casey: I must admit - I would be tmpeted to just use web profiles
[13:35] Justin Clark-Casey: but then I'm UI blind ;)
[13:35] Justin Clark-Casey: web profiles would seem to give far greater flexibility, assuming they are just web pages
[13:35] Jacek Antonelli: Hrm. I hope to do the 2.7 merge by the middle of next week. At the *earliest*, we could maybe have a new WIP build by next weekend (August 13-ish).
[13:35] Prospero Frobozz: Heh. Server side, what is needed to support web profiles? Is it trivial? (I.e. just point to a web page, and tell various PHP developers it's their problem to implement them?)
[13:35] Armin WeatherHax: which again raises the Q how long it is possible to support SL and OS in the same viewer
[13:35] Prospero Frobozz: Armin, somebody told me you were the lead dev for Kokua; is that true?
[13:36] Justin Clark-Casey: prospero: at the moment, I'm not sure the right switches are in place to get the viewer to look at a non-LL location
[13:36] Prospero Frobozz: Yeah....
[13:36] Stryker Jenkins: make it september 1st Jacek... (going away present)... LOL
[13:36] Justin Clark-Casey: that would be a really useful thing to have, if that's currently the case
[13:36] Justin Clark-Casey: once the viewer looks at a non-LL, then a grid could provide webpages however it likes
[13:36] Prospero Frobozz: It will probably always be possible to support SL and OS in the same viewer, the same way that web browsers support not only http: but also (ahem) gopher:
[13:36] Justin Clark-Casey: lol
[13:36] Prospero Frobozz: BUT... it may not be possible to do that and stay tied to the LL source code.
[13:36] Jacek Antonelli: I suspect that we're eventually going to have to support web profiles, probably alongside old profiles.
[13:37] Armin WeatherHax: Lead dev of Kokua - um - no, just having the most commits - but that just happened
[13:37] Prospero Frobozz: heh.
[13:37] Prospero Frobozz: Jacek, are you still nominally lead dev of Kokua then?
[13:37] Jacek Antonelli: Aside from being slow and resource-intensive and not fitting in with the UI and being to "social networkiy"... web profiles aren't horrible.
[13:37] Prospero Frobozz: hee hee
[13:38] Prospero Frobozz: "Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
[13:38] Jacek Antonelli: Hah, yeah
[13:38] Arrehn Oberlander: *chuckles*
[13:38] Thickbrick Sleaford: the new LL social network thing creates (ahem) a network effect
[13:38] Justin Clark-Casey: jacek: ah, say what youi really think :)
[13:38] Prospero Frobozz is always boggled at people creating new social networks. A new small in-the-corner social network isn't going to mean much if it's yet another awlled garden; the biggest walled garden is what ends up winning..
[13:39] Armin WeatherHax: yeah, anyone uses that twitter clone?
[13:39] Prospero Frobozz: I use, actually...
[13:39] Prospero Frobozz: BUT -- I forward to twitter.
[13:39] Justin Clark-Casey: I think in some cases a central service can take everything
[13:39] Prospero Frobozz: So, I use as a matter of principle... in principle, it's based on software that (I think() could itneroperate
[13:39] Justin Clark-Casey: my opinion is that in the virtual worlds case this is ultimately too big a problem for any one service to dominate
[13:39] Justin Clark-Casey: and too complex. Hopefully, maybe, eventually, more like web servers
[13:40] Prospero Frobozz: Yeah... but that really should be true in all social networking. The problem right now is that if you don't like FAcebook or Google+'s policies, you're just stuck.
[13:40] Prospero Frobozz: The fact that both of them are busy ejecting avatar names is the one thing that might help LL's social network catch on with SL users
[13:40] Justin Clark-Casey: the SL ghetto
[13:40] Stryker Jenkins: You kind of loose track of what Social - Network to use... There are simply to many at the moment... making using just 1 an Anti social thing
[13:41] Prospero Frobozz: I forget where I read this, but somebody was commenting that when they see "join Facebook Group X", they heard "see AOL Keyword X"....
[13:41] Boroondas Gupte: I wonder whether Diasopora will become relevant.
[13:41] Prospero Frobozz: And, yet, SMTP email, which wasn't designed for a single central master server, remains functioning more or less as it did three decades ago.
[13:41] Justin Clark-Casey: true, but I think social networks are the kind of problem where one service can dmoniate
[13:41] Stryker Jenkins: I stick with Twitter for now...
[13:41] Justin Clark-Casey: cynically, I don't think diaspora has a hope in hell :)
[13:41] Prospero Frobozz: Justin CC : it can, yes... but it shouldn't. Diaspora or something like it will eventually take over, I suspect. I HOPE.
[13:42] Justin Clark-Casey: heh
[13:42] Stryker Jenkins: although I also have accounts with Facebook and G+/-
[13:42] Justin Clark-Casey: anyway, this is kind of offtopic
[13:42] Prospero Frobozz: heh
[13:42] Boroondas Gupte: well, hell isn't its target market, anyway :-P
[13:42] Armin WeatherHax: lol
[13:42] Prospero Frobozz: At some level, all of the "Web 2.0" stuff is smoke and mirrors and marketspeak. In 1992 or 1993, I had a personal home page on the web, which was just an earlier version of a web 2.0 social network profile page.
[13:42] Stryker Jenkins: Time to bring Imprudence / kokua profile with it's own twitter connect... lol
[13:42] Jacek Antonelli: heh
[13:42] Jacek Antonelli: Aaaaanyway
[13:43] Jacek Antonelli: Getting back to Imp/Kokua...
[13:44] Justin Clark-Casey listens to the tumbleweed
[13:44] Jacek Antonelli: hehe
[13:44] Armin WeatherHax: ok ... I added recently 2 cherrypicks to kokua which render all the mesh bubbles on aditi
[13:44] Prospero Frobozz: Ah, nice
[13:45] Prospero Frobozz: Armin : you haven't pushed them to the "dev" branch, though, have you?
[13:45] Prospero Frobozz doesn't think anything has been committed to the dev branch on github since May 4
[13:46] Armin WeatherHax: we are currently looking into moving to hg - let me look up the repos
[13:46] Prospero Frobozz: Oh!
[13:46] Jacek Antonelli: I'm planning on working with Codie to post a recruitment call for a project manager (to keep track of progress, etc.) and more developers, especially a Mac developer (or two)
[13:46] Prospero Frobozz: I have used Hg for a few years myself; I've only started using git for opensim and such stuff. What's the advantage of git vs. hg?
[13:48] Boroondas Gupte: The basic stuff (commit etc.) is easier in hg, the advanced stuff (history rewriting) is easier in git.
[13:48] Stryker Jenkins: Yeah... a good positive note after your "moving on" text is whats needed to keep users committed to Imprudence and Kokua
[13:48] Armin WeatherHax: is on top, from that fork jacek and me - its all a bit chaotic still. the main reason to switch was a bug of github.
[13:48] Prospero Frobozz: Armin : is that an hg URL?
[13:49] Boroondas Gupte: yes, as well as the URL of the repo website
[13:49] Boroondas Gupte: (on bitbucket, those are identical)
[13:50] Armin WeatherHax: I think in kokua/kokua is just a clone of viewer-dev ,
[13:50] Jacek Antonelli: Yep
[13:50] Thickbrick Sleaford: bitbucket now has easy comparison between forks
[13:51] Boroondas Gupte: ah, cool, they're catching up
[13:51] Boroondas Gupte: bbl
[13:51] Thickbrick Sleaford: as well as a cool commit search UI
[13:51] Jacek Antonelli: Okay, anything else to talk about today?
[13:52] Prospero Frobozz has to run off to a faculty meeting.
[13:52] Justin Clark-Casey: I still plan to do the load iar thing - just got blown off course by working on osNpc*
[13:52] Prospero Frobozz: Have fun everybody
[13:52] Stryker Jenkins: I don't know if this is relevant (or even current) ... but saw a tweet from Google Code about them supporting Git now... (what ever that means)
[13:52] Justin Clark-Casey: bye prospero
[13:52] Jacek Antonelli: Take care Prospero :)
[13:52] Armin WeatherHax: tc Prospero :)
[13:54] Stryker Jenkins: ok... here is what I discoverd in Imp by accident... In the Teleport screen there is the progres bar... when you move your mouse about 1 inch above the text the mouse pointer changes in an up and down arrow and you can drag the progress bar across the screen...
[13:54] Jacek Antonelli: Ah, head
[13:55] Stryker Jenkins: is that "intentional" or a bug...
[13:55] Jacek Antonelli: It's a bug
[13:55] Thickbrick Sleaford: Stryker: also in the login progress bar
[13:55] Stryker Jenkins: lol... but a funny one!
[13:55] Thickbrick Sleaford: it even exists in 2.x
[13:55] Armin WeatherHax has to try that
[13:56] Stryker Jenkins: don't know if it presist between sessions though...
[13:56] Jacek Antonelli: Yeah, it's a side effect of how they did the UI layout
[13:56] Jacek Antonelli: I'm pretty sure it doesn't persist
[13:56] Thickbrick Sleaford: I sometimes play with it while waiting for login
[13:57] Armin WeatherHax: hm, maybe we could add tetris for waiting for the login ...
[13:57] Jacek Antonelli: hehehe
[13:58] Stryker Jenkins: and I was wondering... when Mesh hits SL... is it posible to update Imprudence so we can use the larger prim sizes even if impy does not support mesh objects importing yet?
[13:58] Jacek Antonelli: Cleaning out your inventory should be a minigame like Bejewelled. If you put three items of the same type next to each other, they go to the trash.
[13:58] Stryker Jenkins: i.e. a small usability upgrade?
[13:58] Armin WeatherHax: actually Impy is prepared ... thanks to thickbrick
[13:59] Stryker Jenkins: TY TY TY Thickbrick!
[13:59] Thickbrick Sleaford: no it isn't... they changed the way the viewer checks for a mesh sim
[13:59] Jacek Antonelli: We had already programmed in 64m prim support... then LL changed it. *shakes her fist*
[13:59] Stryker Jenkins: Sigh...
[13:59] Thickbrick Sleaford: now it's actually sane (before it wasn't,) but not supported yet.
[13:59] Thickbrick Sleaford: But, you can always disable build contraints
[14:00] Jacek Antonelli: Yeah. The new protocol makes more sense. It's just too bad they didn't think of it before we went to the effort
[14:00] Stryker Jenkins: anyway... I hope we can get an update for the max prim sizes as soon as it's out there...
[14:00] Thickbrick Sleaford: now the viewer needs to to a GET to the SimulatorFeatures capability and look for something int he resulting LLSD.
[14:00] Armin WeatherHax: ah -the simulator features? (I wonder what difference to caps it has)
[14:01] Jacek Antonelli: Ok, anything else today? Otherwise we can adjourn and go to lunch/dinner/bed
[14:01] Stryker Jenkins: lol
[14:01] Jacek Antonelli: Maybe all three at once
[14:01] Justin Clark-Casey: pffff
[14:01] Armin WeatherHax: lol
[14:02] Justin Clark-Casey: I will go back to writing e-mails instead of earning money
[14:02] Justin Clark-Casey: although hopefully these are e-mails that will lead to money....
[14:02] Jacek Antonelli: That doesn't sound like much fun
[14:02] Justin Clark-Casey: might be fun eventually :)
[14:02] Jacek Antonelli: Well, that's good
[14:02] Jacek Antonelli: Okay, let's adjourn. Take care, all. See you next week. :)
[14:02] Stryker Jenkins: bye bye all
[14:02] Justin Clark-Casey: bye guys
[14:03] Thickbrick Sleaford: see you people
[14:03] Thoria Millgrove: bye all