ImpDev Meetups/2012-02-15

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Summary

ImpDev Meetup for February 15, 2012.

  • Imprudence / Kokua UI transition
  • Experimental Viewers
  • Building on Mac
  • Weekend Meetings
  • Working with 3rd Party Grid Devs

Agenda Items

  • No Agenda

Transcript

[12:02] Richardus Raymaker: hi zatz
[12:02] ZATZAi Asturias: Heya
[12:02] Thoria Millgrove: hi Z
[12:03] Boroondas Gupte: which buttons?
[12:03] ZATZAi Asturias: Heya Stryker, good to see ya again
[12:03] Richardus Raymaker: hmm no sound ?? same problem as with astra
[12:03] Boroondas GupteBoroondas Gupte tears-off "nearby chat" but can't see any buttons in the torn-off window
[12:03] Stryker Jenkins: thank you...
[12:04] Richardus Raymaker: hehe thanks you. not sure why i did not do that
[12:04] Boroondas Gupte: do what?
[12:04] Richardus Raymaker: i know, if io deteach then i lose the contacts. but thats now no problenm
[12:05] Richardus Raymaker: deteach chat window from the other
[12:05] Stryker Jenkins: I always use them detected
[12:05] Stryker Jenkins: detached even
[12:06] McCabe Maxsted: *waves*
[12:06] Boroondas Gupte: by "detached" (or "deteached", as you spell it) you mean a torn-off conversation, or something else?
[12:06] ZATZAi Asturias: There he is, heya McCabe
[12:06] Thoria Millgrove: ahoy McCabe
[12:07] McCabe Maxsted: ahoy!
[12:07] ZATZAi Asturias: And heya JCC
[12:07] Justin Clark-Casey: hello folks
[12:07] Richardus Raymaker: hi jcc
[12:07] McCabe Maxsted: nice to see you stryker :)
[12:07] Stryker Jenkins: @Boroondas... the local chat and the contact list
[12:08] Richardus Raymaker: ok. torn-off. yes some words keep hard with typeing.
[12:08] Richardus Raymaker: hi kent
[12:08] Kentron Katana: hi all, sorry to be late :)
[12:08] ZATZAi Asturias: Heya Kentron
[12:09] Boroondas Gupte: So your initial question is about when a conversation is torn-off rather than in a tab, right? What buttons are where, then?
[12:09] McCabe Maxsted: ahoy kentron :)
[12:09] McCabe Maxsted: what're we talking about?
[12:09] Boroondas GupteBoroondas Gupte isn't quite sure
[12:09] ZATZAi Asturias: Just chatter before we start McCabe
[12:09] Richardus Raymaker: if you make nearby chat seperate there no buttons
[12:09] Stryker Jenkins: nice to see you too McCabe... but I must say I was pissed off a bit at this group and failure to communicate or pickup on sugested changes... anyway... that's in the past now.
[12:09] Richardus Raymaker: h mccabe
[12:09] McCabe Maxsted: pick up on suggested changes?
[12:10] Richardus Raymaker: missed something /
[12:10] Stryker Jenkins: wiki for example... but like I said... that's in the past now...
[12:10] Richardus Raymaker: missed something ?
[12:10] Richardus Raymaker: ok
[12:10] McCabe MaxstedMcCabe Maxsted nods. Okay
[12:10] Boroondas Gupte: You suggested changes on the wiki? Or for the wiki?
[12:11] Boroondas Gupte: Or are you talking about our documentation on the wiki being out of date?
[12:12] Stryker Jenkins: I don't want to dwell on this... I am sure you guys have more important things to discuss... time is short... so to say...
[12:12] Boroondas Gupte: as you wish ...
[12:12] Boroondas Gupte: actually, today's agenda is empty, I think
[12:12] Boroondas GupteBoroondas Gupte looks at it
[12:12] Boroondas Gupte: yeah
[12:13] Kentron Katana: it is empty so we are free to brainstorm ? :)
[12:13] Boroondas Gupte: so ... we need a new name for these inworld meetings, as they aren't about Imprudence anymore
[12:13] Boroondas Gupte: (current name is "ImpDev Meetup")
[12:13] Thoria Millgrove: Kokua Heads?
[12:13] McCabe Maxsted: DevMoot 5000?
[12:13] Kentron Katana: KokuaDev to be on same channel?
[12:13] Kentron Katana: hehe
[12:14] ZATZAi Asturias: I like Kokua doodle doo
[12:14] Thoria Millgrove: lol
[12:14] McCabe Maxsted: hehe
[12:14] Kentron Katana: its fun:)
[12:14] Kentron Katana: +Zatzai :)
[12:14] Stryker Jenkins: ok... I'd love to hear about UI (FUI) for Kokua... I have been test driving FS for a while... and was pleased at first but still there are some major difference between it and the V1 Imprudence
[12:14] Stryker Jenkins: how are you folk deciding on what to pick and what to change for Kokua?
[12:14] Boroondas Gupte: maybe spell it "kokua-dev ..." rather than "KokuaDev ...", so it's consistent with the mailing list name
[12:14] Richardus Raymaker: Hate the icon buttons. 1 main reason to not look at FS anymore
[12:15] ZATZAi Asturias: I might be able to answer that
[12:15] ZATZAi Asturias: We asked on the blog what the public wanted us to do going forward, and of course had our own thoughts as well
[12:15] Boroondas Gupte: what's the "F" in "FUI" again?
[12:15] Boroondas GupteBoroondas Gupte keeps forgetting
[12:15] Stryker Jenkins: flexible UI
[12:15] Boroondas Gupte: ah
[12:15] Stryker Jenkins: V3.3 style
[12:16] ZATZAi Asturias: The majority of the feedback over the blog, at the meetings, and over emails was to focus on the 3.2 viewer code base going forward and depreciate Imprudence (Though we want to get out a final release of that)
[12:16] Richardus Raymaker: other weird thing in FS, it seems nearby chat input field have some scrollback option. and for some reason my cursor wend to there many times wiothout reason
[12:16] Stryker Jenkins: @Zatzai... I followed blog post and "outcome".
[12:16] ZATZAi Asturias: There was other feedback as well, and we're trying to cherry pick the best ideas people had and what worked in the old Kokua code base going forward
[12:16] Richardus Raymaker: blogs i dont follow. mailinglist i have
[12:16] Boroondas Gupte: there was also a summary on the mailing list
[12:16] ZATZAi Asturias: We have some experimentals out right now, but they are very early stuff
[12:17] McCabe Maxsted: advanced/basic mode is going the way of the dodo
[12:17] Boroondas Gupte: http://lists.kokuaviewer.org/pipermail/kokua-dev-kokuaviewer.org/2012-January/000036.html
[12:17] Stryker Jenkins: I have only seen a downloadable Linux so far
[12:17] McCabe Maxsted: but that'll be later
[12:17] ZATZAi Asturias: It's going to take a while before we solidify things as right now our primary focus is on getting out a stable viewer on three platforms
[12:17] ZATZAi Asturias: There is a Windows 32bit client up on the wiki as well
[12:17] ZATZAi Asturias: I am using it myself right now
[12:18] Stryker Jenkins: ah... must have overlooked that... I will test dirive that soon then
[12:18] ZATZAi Asturias: Linux 64 bit will come next
[12:18] Stryker Jenkins: <- on a windows 7 machine
[12:18] ZATZAi Asturias: We don't have a concrete list of what features will make it into Kokua
[12:18] ZATZAi Asturias: We have some things we definately want to focus on
[12:18] ZATZAi Asturias: Making import/export backwards compatible
[12:18] Richardus Raymaker: thing that can better is the sidebar button. newer sl3.2 have fixt that nicer
[12:19] Stryker Jenkins: well I hope you look at what Imprudence looked like and try to mimic that as far as posible
[12:19] ZATZAi Asturias: Changes to the UI where needed to make it more intuitive
[12:19] ZATZAi Asturias: But we're probably not going to try and turn Kokua into Imprudence
[12:19] Nicky Perian: has anything been cherry picked yet in the kokua v-d fork?
[12:19] Stryker Jenkins: I am running FS now with the V1 type Skin applied to it...
[12:19] Richardus Raymaker: with text buttons ?
[12:19] ZATZAi Asturias: I know that'll upset some people but we think v3.2 has progressed enough that it doesn't need a complete rebuilt from the ground up anymore
[12:20] Kentron Katana: I was trying on the last SLV3 development (and same as last kokua fork) on mac
[12:20] ZATZAi Asturias: So we will work on the UI, but it should not be expected for Kokua to every look pixel for pixel like Imprudence did
[12:20] Richardus Raymaker: well i use sl3.2 sometimes. really its not bad, its pretty nice. there are some things that can betetr. but the way with buttons is fine
[12:21] Stryker Jenkins: no... but say something simeple like... the place of the "teleport" text in the content menu over a LM in the inventory.
[12:21] Nicky Perian: i like being able to place buttons either side of display wv3-2
[12:21] Kentron Katana: the other day the team said something about porting old kokua features on new SL develpoment code.. Which features do yo u all think are more important as starting point?
[12:21] Stryker Jenkins: in FS and I believe in SL V3.x as well that's the 2nd in the content menu... where as in Imp it's the first
[12:21] Richardus Raymaker: places ? a button i always remove i think
[12:22] ZATZAi Asturias: You're talking about muscle memory issues etc
[12:22] Stryker Jenkins: or for example the 2 buttons in the texture selection window
[12:22] Nicky Perian: the buttons can be drug across
[12:22] ZATZAi Asturias: That and the old pie menu etc can be an issue. It probably won't be too high on our priority list though to be honest
[12:22] Stryker Jenkins: I think the 2 are in a different order in V3.x then in Imp
[12:23] ZATZAi Asturias: That may boil down to something people just have to get used to the new method
[12:23] ZATZAi Asturias: But we may address is if it really bugs us as well
[12:23] Richardus Raymaker: try to figure out what 2 buttons you mean
[12:23] Stryker Jenkins: stuff like that could be placed in such a way that the transition from Imprudence to Kokua would be much easier
[12:23] ZATZAi Asturias: But again we will be focusing on stability and platform support for a while at first
[12:23] Richardus Raymaker: the only hard part is to open the edit window :P) no pie menu. lol
[12:24] Stryker Jenkins: @Ridhardus... the 2 buttons "cancel" and "save" .... under the texture selection windows
[12:24] Nicky Perian: i hope we can add pie menus from the present kokus 3.0.0 code base
[12:24] Stryker Jenkins: in Imp it's "apply" and "cancel" (I think)
[12:25] Richardus Raymaker: my biggest problem with 32. is always the windows that seems toi revert to some factory size/position
[12:25] ZATZAi Asturias: There may still be a future for Imprudence yet, though I can't promise that, for those who prefer it's UI. I can understand that people don't like change but we can only do so much to accomidate that as frankly it holds the entire project back when we have to recode everything to stay familiar
[12:25] Stryker Jenkins: In my opinion it's those little changes that needs fixing in Kokua ... thats what could make it stand out from the other "klones"
[12:25] ZATZAi Asturias: But I think that's enough talk on this matter. While we do have an open agenda today there are still some issues I'd like for us to address and we're 25 minutes in so let's move on
[12:26] Richardus Raymaker: pick texture: in 32. is ok and cancel
[12:26] ZATZAi Asturias: Nicky, I posted the Win 32bit client to the wiki as you requested but not the Lin 64 as you said it was not Mesh stable
[12:26] Stryker Jenkins: @Richardus... right
[12:26] ZATZAi Asturias: Is there anything we can do to help you with that?
[12:26] Richardus Raymaker: Not see any problem with that.. :O
[12:26] Nicky Perian: correct
[12:27] Boroondas Gupte: I'm not sure whether "standing out" should be a main goal. LL has shown willingness to take good changes upstream, and if we can push them upstream more users can benefit from them.
[12:27] Nicky Perian: Linux 64 will likely be drawn out some time to come
[12:28] ZATZAi Asturias: ok
[12:28] Stryker Jenkins: anyway... I will test drive what you got so far... and if it's appriciated I will give comments on that.
[12:28] ZATZAi Asturias: Comments are fine, and there are instuctions on the wiki for how to bug report the experimentals as well
[12:28] Stryker Jenkins: ok... so you want me to leave I guess and use the redmind...
[12:28] Stryker Jenkins: fine
[12:29] ZATZAi Asturias: No you are welcome to stay....
[12:29] ZATZAi Asturias: And there he goes
[12:29] ZATZAi AsturiasZATZAi Asturias sighs
[12:29] Nicky Perian: wow atitude today
[12:29] Justin Clark-CaseyJustin Clark-Casey grins
[12:29] McCabe MaxstedMcCabe Maxsted is lost, but I suppose that's part of why he's upset
[12:30] ZATZAi Asturias: I have no problem addressing his issue as I know some people feel passionately about the old UI but we just can't devote the entire meeting to it is all
[12:30] ZATZAi Asturias: I think there are a number of people, and I suspect Stryker is one of them, that don't like the change from the v1 to v2-3 UI at all
[12:30] ZATZAi Asturias: And would prefer if we made Kokua look and feel like v1
[12:30] ZATZAi Asturias: Which would be quite a lot of work to do
[12:31] Richardus Raymaker: the feel can work with kokua. the look.. hmm.
[12:31] ZATZAi Asturias: I saw some comments as such on the blog, but it was a minority of people, and many of them even acknowledged they would have to accept the change eventually
[12:31] Richardus Raymaker: i like the 3.2 look to. only soem things not. and some designs in 3.2 take useless screenspace
[12:31] ZATZAi Asturias: There were far more comments asking us to take the course we are on now, moving ahead with v3.2
[12:31] Richardus Raymaker: really wish i could use 3.2 more but the gui bites me
[12:32] ZATZAi Asturias: Yah I agree 3.2 is a big improvement over 2.0 I think a lot of the resistance is the stigma of v2
[12:32] ZATZAi Asturias: There is a lot of familiarity with the olv v1 UI though
[12:32] ZATZAi Asturias: But it's been a few years now
[12:32] Richardus Raymaker: what i know, the sidebar where the biggest problem. now thats gone there only some small things
[12:32] ZATZAi Asturias: Anyway moving on...
[12:33] ZATZAi Asturias: So let's get back to what Boroondas said
[12:33] ZATZAi Asturias: The meeting name, shall we just call it KokuaDev Meetups?
[12:33] Boroondas Gupte: what was that?
[12:33] Boroondas Gupte: ah
[12:33] ZATZAi Asturias: That's the easier thing probably
[12:34] Kentron Katana: for me its ok..
[12:34] Richardus Raymaker: well, its simple. but kokuadev says everything
[12:34] ZATZAi Asturias: Yah
[12:34] Boroondas Gupte: "kokua-dev meetups"?
[12:34] McCabe Maxsted: works for me
[12:34] Kentron Katana: ok..
[12:34] ZATZAi Asturias: With Hyphen? Sure makes sense
[12:34] Nicky Perian: yes with the '-'
[12:34] ZATZAi Asturias: Ok, next thing I can think of here...
[12:34] Richardus Raymaker: yes its more readable with -
[12:34] Kentron Katana: kokua minus dev?
[12:35] ZATZAi Asturias: Is anyone having trouble switching over to Hg?
[12:35] Boroondas Gupte: that's how the mailing list is spelled, so I'd just make it the same
[12:35] ZATZAi Asturias: Anyone need help there?
[12:35] Kentron Katana: itsok
[12:35] Richardus Raymaker: as longi have the adress it must be possible to jump
[12:36] Kentron Katana: what about, things to port 1st from kokua 0.1 and/or imp ?
[12:36] Boroondas Gupte: well, our current bitbucket.org/kokua/kokua is a mess (partially due to the use of hg named branches) ... If no one is against that, I'd replace it with a clean clone of viewer-development. (Off course, I'd keep the current repo around, just under a
[12:36] Boroondas Gupte: different name)
[12:37] Richardus Raymaker: oh you mean othr hg. HG = Hypergrid for me. lol
[12:37] ZATZAi Asturias: That sounds sensible? Any objections to that?
[12:37] Kentron Katana: ok for me Boroon
[12:37] Boroondas Gupte: mercurial
[12:37] McCabe Maxsted: sounds good to me
[12:37] Boroondas Gupte: ok, I'll do that, then
[12:37] Nicky Perian: +1 branches are a mess
[12:37] ZATZAi Asturias: I know I get emails on occaision about this or that branch in the bitbucket from users who want to be on the bleeding edge
[12:38] ZATZAi Asturias: So anything to make it more clear is a good thing
[12:38] McCabe Maxsted: kentron: the media system for porting will be a big one; as well as hop://
[12:38] ZATZAi Asturias: Oh that reminds me
[12:38] Kentron Katana: yes, its a problem, I ve tried to compile on mac having problems with media.
[12:39] ZATZAi Asturias: Kentron was it you who was trying to build on Mac last week?
[12:39] McCabe Maxsted: we can prolly use the rebranding stuff too
[12:39] ZATZAi Asturias: Asked and answerede
[12:39] Kentron Katana: yes i ve tried nicky's code, but i got errors
[12:39] McCabe Maxsted: building gstreamer? Or the plugin?
[12:39] Kentron Katana: I complile succesfully the last SL dev code, but no sound
[12:39] Kentron Katana: it has now sounds at all
[12:40] Kentron Katana: sorry no (instead of 'now')
[12:40] McCabe Maxsted: were the openal changes ported? hm
[12:40] Kentron Katana: however I ve found a repository for rlv viewer based on SLv3 code that compiles ok
[12:41] McCabe Maxsted: we can link against fmod now, but I don't know if we can use it still with its license
[12:41] Boroondas Gupte: ok, the previous kokua/kokua is now https://bitbucket.org/kokua/kokua-old
[12:41] ZATZAi Asturias: Ty B
[12:41] Kentron Katana: thanx Boroon
[12:41] Boroondas Gupte: https://bitbucket.org/kokua/kokua is a fresh clone of v-d
[12:41] Nicky Perian: look at how singularity handles fmod
[12:41] McCabe Maxsted: \o/
[12:41] Richardus Raymaker: whats astra useing ?
[12:41] ZATZAi Asturias: Do I need to update the wiki urls for the experimental viewers?
[12:41] ZATZAi Asturias: Or will they still work?
[12:41] Richardus Raymaker: because that one fail with sounds
[12:42] Richardus Raymaker: sinbgularity works fine here
[12:42] Nicky Perian: links if alrady on host and doesn't if not
[12:42] Richardus Raymaker: singularity
[12:42] Nicky Perian: yes
[12:42] McCabe Maxsted: I'm thinking more about our distributing it
[12:42] Kentron Katana: that rlv repo has a link to a fmod from themselves but it didnt work on sl code.. i have to investigate more
[12:42] ZATZAi Asturias: Looks like the links still work
[12:43] Nicky Perian: but I dont know how the distrubtition would work
[12:44] Nicky Perian: maybe presence code at startup
[12:44] Nicky Perian: and recommendation to download
[12:44] McCabe MaxstedMcCabe Maxsted is reading the non-commercial license. Looks like we're okay, actually
[12:45] McCabe Maxsted: since we're not intending to make any kind of profit
[12:45] McCabe Maxsted: (usual IANAL caveat)
[12:46] Boroondas Gupte: Isn't any no-profit condition incompatible with LGPL?
[12:46] McCabe Maxsted: http://www.fmod.org/index.php/sales
[12:47] Boroondas Gupte: Or isn't that an issue, as we are "only" linking it, not making it part of our source?
[12:47] McCabe Maxsted: we have to make a profit?
[12:47] McCabe Maxsted: ah
[12:47] Boroondas Gupte: what?
[12:48] McCabe Maxsted: it's an issue on distribution. We can link whatever we want to anythihng, but we have to obey all licenses when we distribute. The LGPL should let us link with it so far as I know
[12:48] Kentron Katana: k:)
[12:48] Boroondas Gupte: ok
[12:49] Kentron Katana: well isn't that saying goodbye to the possible donnations ? :D
[12:49] McCabe Maxsted: so if someone creates a kokua clone and wants to use it commercially, the onus is on them
[12:49] Thoria Millgrove: not-for-profits can certainly accept donations
[12:49] McCabe Maxsted: my guess would be donations would be okay?
[12:50] Thoria Millgrove: they just can't make a profit from them
[12:50] ZATZAi Asturias: Depends on what the donations go towards
[12:50] Thoria Millgrove: otherwise, the big associations, like American Cancer Assn, or American Diabetes Assn, couldn't have their big donation drives
[12:50] ZATZAi Asturias: Sorta like how planned parenthood can take money so long as that money isn't used for contraceptive care
[12:50] Kentron Katana: k,k,
[12:50] ZATZAi Asturias: Not to get political, but to equate the legality in a widely known way
[12:51] McCabe Maxsted: hm k
[12:51] McCabe Maxsted: if it becomes an issue, openal works fine, still, anyway...
[12:51] ZATZAi Asturias: Legal hoops you jump through, something I can check on down the line when we start donations
[12:51] Nicky Perian: once you have cash it is difficult to what penny wnet where
[12:51] Nicky Perian: to say'
[12:52] ZATZAi Asturias: Depends on how good your accounting is
[12:52] ZATZAi Asturias: hehe
[12:52] Nicky Perian: or whose penny
[12:52] McCabe Maxsted: we need a cayman islands account? haha
[12:52] ZATZAi Asturias: lol
[12:52] Kentron Katana: so its not a problem in our current situation :)
[12:53] Nicky Perian: do we have amethod to donate yet?
[12:53] McCabe Maxsted: also, re: distribution. Work we do for ourselves in the group isn't considered "distributing". It's just when we push to a public repo for example, or host public binaries
[12:53] ZATZAi Asturias: Not yet
[12:54] ZATZAi Asturias: Regarding donations that'll come with the new site as I want to check on the legalitys before we implement it to be safe.
[12:54] Boroondas Gupte: when working in public, as we intend to, that distinction is a bit meaningless, isn't it, McCabe?
[12:54] McCabe Maxsted: yeah
[12:54] Nicky Perian: so Exp are not distributions
[12:54] ZATZAi Asturias: Cory was talking about moving the site to one of his servers but... nothing yet, got to try and bug him about that again soon
[12:55] McCabe Maxsted: but if we want to do something just between us without worrying about it, that's an option
[12:55] Boroondas Gupte: Nicky, yes they are, as everyone can download them.
[12:55] Boroondas Gupte: Thus they are, by definition, published.
[12:55] Nicky Perian: k
[12:56] Boroondas Gupte: Whether we call them "release" or not doesn't have any legal significance, AFAIK.
[12:56] Nicky Perian: then i will be careful license wise
[12:56] ZATZAi Asturias: Yah legally as soon as they are made available publically, one is required to follow all procedures with them providing all source etc
[12:56] McCabe Maxsted: IIRC, a closed group of beta testers isn't considered a release
[12:56] ZATZAi Asturias: Even if you only give it to one person, you have to provide all that to that one person
[12:56] McCabe Maxsted: just publically available stuff
[12:56] Boroondas Gupte: What ZATZAi said.
[12:57] ZATZAi Asturias: But speaking personally...
[12:57] ZATZAi Asturias: We can probably be a little lax with some things that aren't like published to the blog etc and if someone wants the code and we didn't happen to have it available we'd provide it to them
[12:58] ZATZAi Asturias: That's not what the licence tells us to do
[12:58] ZATZAi Asturias: But it's generally "ok" for little things that you're still working on and large companies often do the same even with big code releases (Though that is wrong)
[12:58] ZATZAi Asturias: I would say we should make an effort to release code for everything we publish, even the small stuff and experimentals
[12:59] ZATZAi Asturias: But if we fall behind on an experimental it's not the end of the world. And if someone asks we put it up
[12:59] ZATZAi Asturias: But for any official releases, we have to make the source available
[12:59] ZATZAi Asturias: But that's only because of convenience on our part
[13:00] ZATZAi Asturias: The licence is clear that everything needs to have source included with it
[13:00] Nicky Perian: Releasing in cycle releases are a source code moving target.
[13:00] Nicky Perian: may at time be an exact match
[13:00] Boroondas Gupte: Why not make it a practice to post a link to a changeset on a publicly accessible mercurial repo with every download? It'll make it easier for ourselves, too, if we want to know what's already in a build and what not.
[13:00] Nicky Perian: not be an
[13:00] McCabe Maxsted: automating creating a source archive to distribute would be very handy here too
[13:00] ZATZAi Asturias: Indeed McCabe
[13:01] ZATZAi Asturias: Are there any tools that can do that?
[13:01] Nicky Perian: with bitbucket i think we have that
[13:01] Boroondas Gupte: we don't need archives, links to corresponding changesets suffice
[13:01] McCabe Maxsted: ah, cool
[13:02] McCabe Maxsted: if not we already have zlib right there anyway
[13:03] ZATZAi Asturias: All right are there any other issues we should address today?
[13:03] Boroondas Gupte: and btw., for every tag we push onto bitbucket, we get archives in 3 different formats for free: https://bitbucket.org/kokua/kokua/downloads
[13:03] McCabe Maxsted: \o/
[13:03] ZATZAi Asturias: Nice
[13:03] Boroondas Gupte: well, what about the weekend meetings?
[13:03] Boroondas Gupte: how often do we want to have them and when do we start?
[13:04] ZATZAi Asturias: My thinking on that is once a month
[13:04] Nicky Perian: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7833186/downloads of archives.JPG
[13:04] McCabe Maxsted: I'm going to try finishing the Imp merges this week if I have time. If you talk to onefang, I haven't forgotten
[13:04] ZATZAi Asturias: I would say every 4th week but that can be a little tricky
[13:05] Boroondas Gupte: Maybe make it something easy to remember, like "last saturday each month" or "first sunday each month"
[13:05] ZATZAi Asturias: I would say the first Sunday or every month we meet. And it would be in addition to our regularly Wednesday meetings
[13:05] Thoria Millgrove: +1 Boro
[13:05] ZATZAi Asturias: To avoid confusion
[13:06] ZATZAi Asturias: Heh we said the same thing
[13:06] Boroondas Gupte: :-D
[13:06] ZATZAi Asturias: That's the thing about typing it out
[13:06] ZATZAi Asturias: lol
[13:06] Thoria Millgrove: my work schedule has changed, and being here on Wednesdays is much more difficult for me now, so having a weekend option would be very good, even if it's only once a month
[13:06] ZATZAi Asturias: So let's do that then. We'll start it in March
[13:06] ZATZAi Asturias: The first Sunday of every month, starting March
[13:06] ZATZAi Asturias: We'll meet here at 20:00 UTC
[13:07] ZATZAi Asturias: In addition to our Wednesday meetings
[13:07] ZATZAi Asturias: That sound good to everyone?
[13:07] Thoria Millgrove: that's 15:00 EST?
[13:07] Nicky Perian: ok here
[13:07] Thoria Millgrove: that should work
[13:07] Thoria Millgrove: it'll cut into my Sunday afternoon nap a bit :-P
[13:07] ZATZAi Asturias: @Thoria Hmm, well 20:00 UTC is 12:00 Pacific
[13:08] Boroondas Gupte: is "first" set, or should we make a doodle? (Some might have other fixed stuff, each "nth <some>-day each month" )
[13:08] ZATZAi Asturias: So yah 15:00 Eastern
[13:08] ZATZAi Asturias: Sure B, we can do a Doodle on it
[13:08] ZATZAi Asturias: Sunday at 20:00 UTC did turn out to be the best time for the all hands though
[13:09] ZATZAi Asturias: But we can do a Doodle with everyone to see if there is a better weekend time
[13:09] ZATZAi Asturias: You want to send one out to everyone to vote on and we can pick from the list next Wednesday?
[13:09] Nicky Perian: I need to leave se ya later
[13:09] Richardus Raymaker: can be tricky anyway. sofar i nremeber 1st sunday of month there's a town meeting in osgrid to
[13:10] Thoria Millgrove: ok, I've a notecard to share with you all
[13:10] Justin Clark-Casey: bye nicky
[13:10] ZATZAi Asturias: ltr Nicky
[13:10] Richardus Raymaker: by nicky
[13:10] Thoria Millgrove: did I get everyone?
[13:10] Thoria Millgrove: the group give thing is one of the few v2 changes I liked
[13:10] Richardus Raymaker: thats confusing in kokua show , reject block
[13:10] McCabe Maxsted: aye
[13:10] Boroondas Gupte: I got a notecard
[13:10] ZATZAi Asturias: I got it, reading now
[13:11] Kentron Katana: thx:)
[13:11] ZATZAi Asturias: This looks good Thoria
[13:11] Thoria Millgrove: Crystal is especially interested in helping out where she can on this
[13:11] ZATZAi Asturias: We definately appreciate the help of grid developers
[13:11] Boroondas Gupte: make her subscribe to kokua-dev mailing list!
[13:12] ZATZAi Asturias: That was something we were taking about needing last week
[13:12] Thoria Millgrove: oh, and we expect to update the grid to 0.7.2 on the 23rd, if all goes well
[13:12] Richardus Raymaker: show would be betetr if its accept
[13:12] Justin Clark-Casey: if there is anything that does improve opensim core the project would very much appreicate a patch contribution
[13:12] McCabe Maxsted: :)
[13:12] Boroondas Gupte: http://lists.kokuaviewer.org/listinfo.cgi/kokua-dev-kokuaviewer.org
[13:12] Thoria Millgrove: JCC, I think she has contributed some things back in the past
[13:12] Richardus Raymaker: u think the login managaer section can have some discussion
[13:12] Justin Clark-Casey: oh right - do you know her username?
[13:13] Thoria Millgrove: not off the top of my head
[13:13] Justin Clark-Casey: k
[13:14] Boroondas Gupte: btw., JCC, what's the best place for viewer and sim devs to discuss protocols?
[13:14] Boroondas Gupte: it'd probably be good to keep that separate from each one's development discussion
[13:14] Justin Clark-Casey: actually, I think the best place is the opensim-dev list
[13:14] ZATZAi Asturias: I honestly think we should start a mailing list for that, and invite all the TPVs and Grid Devs to it
[13:14] Justin Clark-Casey: creating third party lists for this just doesn't seem to work well right now
[13:14] ZATZAi Asturias: hehe
[13:14] Justin Clark-Casey: but if someone does get a list going I'm very happy to monitor it
[13:15] Justin Clark-Casey: maybe the existing tpv list? (which has seen zero traffic :)
[13:15] ZATZAi Asturias: Good point there
[13:15] Boroondas Gupte: are the opensim developers on that list?
[13:15] ZATZAi Asturias: People are already subbed there
[13:15] Boroondas Gupte: then it might be a good place
[13:15] Justin Clark-Casey: only me, I expect
[13:15] Boroondas Gupte: meh
[13:15] ZATZAi Asturias: Hmm
[13:16] ZATZAi Asturias: Well we could create a neutral mailing list, or JCC could so it's not seen as a Kokua list
[13:16] ZATZAi Asturias: And we could blog and, and ask Firestorm to blog it, and the other TPVs
[13:16] ZATZAi Asturias: Get awareness up about it and get the various devs to join maybe?
[13:16] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't see any appetite for a list atm
[13:16] Justin Clark-Casey: as the tpv one is unused
[13:16] ZATZAi Asturias: True
[13:16] Boroondas Gupte: problem with using opensim-dev list is, that I expect it to be busy with opensim development stuff that I'm not interested in. (Not because it wouldn't be interesting, but because my time and attention span is limited.)
[13:16] ZATZAi Asturias: Its rare to see an email in it
[13:17] Justin Clark-Casey: borrondas: that's a good poitn
[13:17] ZATZAi Asturias: And I suspect the counter to that is true as well
[13:17] ZATZAi Asturias: The OpenSim Devs might not like TPV talk filling up their mailing list
[13:17] Justin Clark-Casey: that would only happen if there were actually enough of it to be annoying
[13:17] Justin Clark-Casey: then one could spawn off a list which people would be known to be interested in
[13:18] Boroondas Gupte: ok, sounds good
[13:18] Justin Clark-Casey: tbh, I think just using the existing tpv list would be fine
[13:18] ZATZAi Asturias: Maybe that's the way to go then, start in the OpenSim Dev and move to our own if it gets popular
[13:19] Boroondas Gupte: would it be possible to get some more opensim devs onto the TPV list?
[13:19] Justin Clark-Casey: and if there are complaints about neutrality then there's enuogh interest so one could also spawn a separate list then
[13:19] Justin Clark-Casey: I suspect not, it's a chicken and egg problem to some extent
[13:20] Boroondas Gupte: ok, so http://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev it is for now
[13:20] Boroondas GupteBoroondas Gupte will subscribe to that
[13:20] Justin Clark-Casey: cool
[13:21] ZATZAi Asturias: Before we finish up, I thought everyone might get a chuckle out of this
[13:21] ZATZAi Asturias: http://www.somethingofthatilk.com/index.php?id=135
[13:21] Justin Clark-Casey: thoria: some work on extenrl viewer 3 compatible profiles has been going on at http://forge.opensimulator.org/gf/project/osprofile, I believe
[13:22] Thoria Millgrove: thanks JCC; I'll share that
[13:22] Justin Clark-Casey: ZATZAi: heh
[13:23] McCabe Maxsted: XDD
[13:23] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to bounce. See you guys later
[13:23] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin
[13:23] Justin Clark-CaseyJustin Clark-Casey waves
[13:23] McCabe Maxsted: take care!
[13:23] Thoria Millgrove: tc Justin
[13:23] ZATZAi Asturias: All right, then if there is nothing else...?
[13:24] Boroondas Gupte: With all the code generation I see on my job, I can say this one is actually quire accurate: http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2362
[13:24] ZATZAi Asturias: Oh SMBC has some great ones about programming
[13:25] ZATZAi Asturias: One day we'll all be programming using pictographs that have underlying logic in them
[13:25] ZATZAi Asturias: Visual Studio 2030
[13:25] ZATZAi Asturias: lol
[13:25] Thoria Millgrove: lol
[13:25] Boroondas Gupte: Can't you already do that with that LEGO IDE?
[13:25] ZATZAi Asturias: Sorta of yah
[13:25] Boroondas Gupte: (Yes, LEGO, not LOGO)
[13:26] ZATZAi Asturias: You just can't make advanced programs out of it
[13:26] McCabe Maxsted: XD
[13:26] ZATZAi Asturias: Yet...
[13:26] ZATZAi Asturias: But it's coming!
[13:27] Boroondas Gupte: http://www.science20.com/chatter_box/blog/lego_turing_machine
[13:27] ZATZAi Asturias: So B, you'll send out a Doodle for the once monthly weekend meeting?
[13:27] Thoria Millgrove: if it's Turing equivalent, you can do anything with it ...
[13:27] Richardus Raymaker: shame i cant find the video nebadon showed back
[13:27] Boroondas Gupte: Yes, I'll make a doodle
[13:27] ZATZAi Asturias: Cool
[13:27] Thoria Millgrove: the UI may be tricky, though ...
[13:28] ZATZAi Asturias: All right then I cam going to post this to the wiki
[13:28] ZATZAi Asturias: Thank you everyone for coming
[13:28] ZATZAi Asturias: See you again next week, same Kokua Time, same Kokua Channel
[13:28] Thoria Millgrove: thank you!